Tuesday, June 26, 2007
Thursday, June 21, 2007
Apostle’s creed part 5 the virgin birth
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit Born of the Virgin Mary.
Christians believe that Jesus’ birth was a miraculous event as is recorded in Matthew as a fulfillment of the prophet.
22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:22-23
Mormons believe something quite different though.
Anyone can get the video The God makers, or The Temple of the God Makers. These films give an animated version of what Mormons believe in this matter. That God the father took on human form and had sexual relations with Mary that resulted in Jesus’ birth.
Now I agree that this animated short does seem very mocking in its portal of the belief, but the theology is there.
One thing to be understood there are many Mormons who believe the biblical teaching that Mary was a virgin, but this is not what Mormons or their leaders teach.
Brigham Young said, “When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost…remember from this time forth and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost…in fact…if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children by them, brining the elders into great difficulty.” (Journal of discourses vol 1, pp. 50-51)
And again:
“The birth of the savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action…(Jesus)… was begotten of his father as we were of our fathers.” (Jounal of Discourses Vol 8 p 115)
Young also said that the Elohim had sex with Mary himself because he would not let any other man do it. (Journal of Discourses Vol 4 p 218)
Orson Pratt said, “the father and mother of Jesus according to the flesh must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and wife; hence the virgin Mary must have been for the time being the lawful wife of God the father; we use the term lawful Wife because it would have been blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the savior unlawfully.” (Pratt, p 158 )
And Herber C Kimball said, “I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father and also my savior, Jesus Christ. According to the scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh and there was nothing unnatural about it.” (Journal of Discourses Vol. 8 p. 211.)
Bruce McConkie said that Christ was born the same as any other man is born to a mortal father, “…into the normal and natural course of events.” (Mcconkie, p 742)
And to top it all off Joseph fielding smith said, “Christ was…not born without the aid of man and that man was God.” (Joseph fielding Smith, doctrines of salvation, bookcraft Publishers, salt Lake city, Vol 1 p 18)
This doctrine can go two was, one that the there was a union between Mary and Elohim, meaning that she was not a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, Or that Mary was still a virgin because she did not have sex with a man but rather with a deity. Either way that is little more extraordinary about Jesus then Hercules or any of the other sons of the many pagan Gods.
All these Great leaders of the Mormon Church are adding to their theology that when it all comes down there is little difference between us and Jesus. Jesus is not unique any more then Achilles. He is just one more great man, great hero of man kind.
By taking out the miracle of Jesus’ birth they contradict both church doctrine and more importantly the bible.
Christians believe that Jesus’ birth was a miraculous event as is recorded in Matthew as a fulfillment of the prophet.
22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:22-23
Mormons believe something quite different though.
Anyone can get the video The God makers, or The Temple of the God Makers. These films give an animated version of what Mormons believe in this matter. That God the father took on human form and had sexual relations with Mary that resulted in Jesus’ birth.
Now I agree that this animated short does seem very mocking in its portal of the belief, but the theology is there.
One thing to be understood there are many Mormons who believe the biblical teaching that Mary was a virgin, but this is not what Mormons or their leaders teach.
Brigham Young said, “When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost…remember from this time forth and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost…in fact…if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children by them, brining the elders into great difficulty.” (Journal of discourses vol 1, pp. 50-51)
And again:
“The birth of the savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action…(Jesus)… was begotten of his father as we were of our fathers.” (Jounal of Discourses Vol 8 p 115)
Young also said that the Elohim had sex with Mary himself because he would not let any other man do it. (Journal of Discourses Vol 4 p 218)
Orson Pratt said, “the father and mother of Jesus according to the flesh must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and wife; hence the virgin Mary must have been for the time being the lawful wife of God the father; we use the term lawful Wife because it would have been blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the savior unlawfully.” (Pratt, p 158 )
And Herber C Kimball said, “I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father and also my savior, Jesus Christ. According to the scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh and there was nothing unnatural about it.” (Journal of Discourses Vol. 8 p. 211.)
Bruce McConkie said that Christ was born the same as any other man is born to a mortal father, “…into the normal and natural course of events.” (Mcconkie, p 742)
And to top it all off Joseph fielding smith said, “Christ was…not born without the aid of man and that man was God.” (Joseph fielding Smith, doctrines of salvation, bookcraft Publishers, salt Lake city, Vol 1 p 18)
This doctrine can go two was, one that the there was a union between Mary and Elohim, meaning that she was not a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, Or that Mary was still a virgin because she did not have sex with a man but rather with a deity. Either way that is little more extraordinary about Jesus then Hercules or any of the other sons of the many pagan Gods.
All these Great leaders of the Mormon Church are adding to their theology that when it all comes down there is little difference between us and Jesus. Jesus is not unique any more then Achilles. He is just one more great man, great hero of man kind.
By taking out the miracle of Jesus’ birth they contradict both church doctrine and more importantly the bible.
Monday, June 18, 2007
Memory--> you engaged yet?
It was christmas my second year of college and my family and I had gone to AZ to be with the grandparents. that christmas my dad's little brother called. he talked to the grandparents then to my mom. in the other room i hear mom laughing and then say something like, "she's jsut really into her studies right now and is in no hurry to settle down."
I know they were talkign about me, and when my mom came out she confermed it. she told me, "Uncle S--- just asked if you were engaged yet."
It really bugged me. He did not ask if i was datting anyone or had a boy friend, no he asked if i was engaged. I may have not talked to him in over a year but still the better question to have asked was if i had a boyfriend.
but the truth of the matter is good little mormon boys go off on thier missions and when they come home they get married, good little mormon grils either get married right out of highschool or go on thier mission and then get married. I have actually documented this in my causins. one girl cuasin was married with 6 months of getting back from her mission.
why the stress on marrige? because with out being married a women can not enter the highest level of heaven. plus there are levels of heaven that a man can not reach without being married.
I know they were talkign about me, and when my mom came out she confermed it. she told me, "Uncle S--- just asked if you were engaged yet."
It really bugged me. He did not ask if i was datting anyone or had a boy friend, no he asked if i was engaged. I may have not talked to him in over a year but still the better question to have asked was if i had a boyfriend.
but the truth of the matter is good little mormon boys go off on thier missions and when they come home they get married, good little mormon grils either get married right out of highschool or go on thier mission and then get married. I have actually documented this in my causins. one girl cuasin was married with 6 months of getting back from her mission.
why the stress on marrige? because with out being married a women can not enter the highest level of heaven. plus there are levels of heaven that a man can not reach without being married.
Thursday, June 14, 2007
apostel's creed part 4 Jesus
And Jesus Christ his only son our lord
The important part here is that Jesus is God’s only son. Yes we become adopted into the family of God but we are not the brothers and sisters of Christ in the literal since.
The official teaching of Jesus from the church is “that Jesus Christ was ‘begotten’ as the first spirit child of the Father (Elohim) and one of his unnamed wives, (often referred to as the ‘heavenly mother’). Jesus, as a spirit son, then progressed in the spirit world until he became a God. Christ, ‘by obedience and devotion to the truth…attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as God.’” (1) (Alma 12: 33, Moses 7: 62, 2 Ne. 25: 12 D&C 93:21)
Mormons often refer to Jesus as “our elder brother”.
Thus technically Jesus is no different then any of us. In this happy family Jesus is the oldest perfect son that we are all supposed to emulate. We are different because of spirit age rather then what we are.
They qualify only with begotten, the Christians do not make this qualification he is the only son of God, through him we are adopted into the family of God. Paul puts it this way:
13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (Ephesians 2: 13)
Now another point that should be made here is that this doctrine also says that Satan was also the brother of Christ. Which means that the war in heaven, before the creation of the earth, was little more then sibling rivalry. (2)
This is in conflict with the bible because the bible teaches that Lucifer was an angel. Col 1:16 says that he was created by Jesus. There are different kinds of angels, (see Romans 8:38, Eph 1:21, 3:10, 6:12, Col 2:10-15, Titus 3:1.
Christ is the creator, and Lucifer is created. And the same is for us, Christ is the creator, and we are the creation.
The important part here is that Jesus is God’s only son. Yes we become adopted into the family of God but we are not the brothers and sisters of Christ in the literal since.
The official teaching of Jesus from the church is “that Jesus Christ was ‘begotten’ as the first spirit child of the Father (Elohim) and one of his unnamed wives, (often referred to as the ‘heavenly mother’). Jesus, as a spirit son, then progressed in the spirit world until he became a God. Christ, ‘by obedience and devotion to the truth…attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as God.’” (1) (Alma 12: 33, Moses 7: 62, 2 Ne. 25: 12 D&C 93:21)
Mormons often refer to Jesus as “our elder brother”.
Thus technically Jesus is no different then any of us. In this happy family Jesus is the oldest perfect son that we are all supposed to emulate. We are different because of spirit age rather then what we are.
They qualify only with begotten, the Christians do not make this qualification he is the only son of God, through him we are adopted into the family of God. Paul puts it this way:
13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (Ephesians 2: 13)
Now another point that should be made here is that this doctrine also says that Satan was also the brother of Christ. Which means that the war in heaven, before the creation of the earth, was little more then sibling rivalry. (2)
This is in conflict with the bible because the bible teaches that Lucifer was an angel. Col 1:16 says that he was created by Jesus. There are different kinds of angels, (see Romans 8:38, Eph 1:21, 3:10, 6:12, Col 2:10-15, Titus 3:1.
Christ is the creator, and Lucifer is created. And the same is for us, Christ is the creator, and we are the creation.
Monday, June 11, 2007
Memory--> Forgiving God?
I spent this last Christmas with my family at one of my aunt's house. On the way my sister asked a question about our Mormon relatives. "do they have Jesus in their hearts?" the answer to this question is yes but no. for as with many issues with Mormonism there is not a simple answer. after a mini debate it was questionable if my sister understood the answer tot he question.
latter during our stay my sister came up and asked my mother if she had read the sign my aunt had on the door by the kid's bath room. she then continued to say "I want nothing to do with their God."
on a piece of paper taped to the wall was this passage form the doctrine and covenants:
I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men. D&C 64:10.
this does not line up with the God who says all that come to him will be forgiven, but men have to forgive everyone, even if God Chooses to not forgive us.
latter during our stay my sister came up and asked my mother if she had read the sign my aunt had on the door by the kid's bath room. she then continued to say "I want nothing to do with their God."
on a piece of paper taped to the wall was this passage form the doctrine and covenants:
I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men. D&C 64:10.
this does not line up with the God who says all that come to him will be forgiven, but men have to forgive everyone, even if God Chooses to not forgive us.
Thursday, June 7, 2007
Apostel's creed part 3 God as creator
The third thing this line tells us about God is that he is the creature of heaven and earth. This was important for the christens at the time that this creed was put down because there was a group call the Gnostics who claimed to be Christian but they were not. They believed that all matter was evil and thus could not have come from God.
Christians reinforced their belief that God had created everything. From the earth to everything seen in the night sky to the single celled organisms that can only be seen under a telescope.
So what about Mormons, do they belie that God is the creature of heaven and earth? Well Elohim did create this earth, but he did not create everything in this and other galaxies. You see God had to be a man before he could evolve into a god. So he had to have an ‘earth’ to be a man on which was created by his father, who also had to go through the process of being a man to become a god. He also needed a planet to be a man on which was created by his heavenly father.
In conclusion it seems that Elohim the God of Mormonism may be father, but not in the sense that Christians mean father, but he is not all powerful, nor is he the creature of heaven and earth.
Christians reinforced their belief that God had created everything. From the earth to everything seen in the night sky to the single celled organisms that can only be seen under a telescope.
So what about Mormons, do they belie that God is the creature of heaven and earth? Well Elohim did create this earth, but he did not create everything in this and other galaxies. You see God had to be a man before he could evolve into a god. So he had to have an ‘earth’ to be a man on which was created by his father, who also had to go through the process of being a man to become a god. He also needed a planet to be a man on which was created by his heavenly father.
In conclusion it seems that Elohim the God of Mormonism may be father, but not in the sense that Christians mean father, but he is not all powerful, nor is he the creature of heaven and earth.
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